thegenealogygirl


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Photograph Showcase: In Uniform

 

DUVAL, Francis Cyprien on boat

Francis Cyprien Duval, on far right

Francis Cyprien Duval is my 2nd great grandfather.  He was born 3 October 1863 in Rimouski, Québec, Canada.  He was the first in our direct line to leave Québec after settlement from France.

Francis was an adventurer.  He was in Dawson, Alaska before the Gold Rush began.  He stayed throughout and did well.  He tried his hand at homesteading in Fairbanks.  He moved his wife and children back and forth between Alaska and California for many years.

Sometime after the death of his father-in-law, Henry Hyde, in Fairbanks in 1907, Francis and his family moved to Vancouver, BC and then finally settled in Lynn Valley, BC.

He lied about his age and joined the Canadian Expeditionary Forces during WWI.  That didn’t last long before he was sent back home.

He went on to work as a Forest Ranger.  He continued in that work until the time of his death at age 55 on 31 May 1919 in Vancouver, BC.

This photo is one of very few photos of Francis.  There are no notations on the back.  Based on what I know of Francis’ life, I would guess that this was taken during his service in WWI.  I did some google searching and his hat and collar seem to match the images of the uniforms during this time.

Francis died before he was a grandfather.  I descend from his son Francis Henry Duval.  Francis Henry was the father of two children – my Grandma Deane, who recently died, and my Grand Uncle Frank.

During the last two days of my Grandma’s life, the family gathered at her side.  In my conversations with Uncle Frank, he expressed disappointment that he hadn’t thought to ask his Dad about his Grandpa.

So, Uncle Frank, this one’s for you.

 

 


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Photograph Showcase: Class Pictures 101 years ago

DUVAL, Francis and Vera, 1916 Lynn Valley School

It’s back to school week for us.  A perfect time to pull out an old family photo featuring school days.  Because these two photos are glued to one piece of cardboard, I decided to post them together.  They come from the collection of Vera Duval.  Her collection was passed to her niece, my Grandma, who in turn gave them to me.

The top photo is coming away just enough to see a notation on the back that reads:

 

Taken 1916 at Lynn Valley School, Vera & Francis Duval

 

Francis Duval is my great grandfather.  Vera is his older sister.

In the top photo, Francis is in the second row down from the top, second child in from the left.  In the same photo, Vera is in the second row back from the front, fourth child in from the left.

In the bottom photo, Francis is in the center of the front row.  I am not sure if Vera is in this photo.  The only girl who I think she might be, is the girl in the third row up from the bottom, third from the left wearing a dark dress with a colored bow on top of her head.  I am also wondering if their younger sister Dolores might be in either photo.  She was born in 1909 so… maybe?  None of the faces strike me as definitely being hers.

Francis looks younger in the bottom photo to me.  What do you think?

I am also trying to decide if the two buildings are the same.  There are definite similarities, enough to think they are the same building.  But it strikes me as odd that there would be two large staircases on different parts of the building.

The bottom photo is glued down so tightly that I have no hope of getting to any type of label that might be hiding there on the back of the photo.

Even if I can’t wrangle out every single detail, I love these old school pictures.  What a treasure!

 

 


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This and That

IMG_8152

My littlest darling battling a yucky stomach flu.

The last week has been rough at our house.  The stomach flu made its way through all of us with the exception of my husband.  Despite spending the majority of my time being a human pillow for my feverish, sleepy little lad, I did have some cool genealogy moments.

But first!

Exactly one year ago today, we said goodbye to our missionary.  One year down, one to go!  🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉  Here is my favorite picture from that day.

28725998084_eaa6f3e483_o

And Second – 

Momma C is a woman in South Carolina who loves Mormon Missionaries.  She adopts them, trains them to say “Yes ma’am”, take out her garbage, and bring in her groceries.  In return she feeds them – a lot, calls their mothers every week, and sends text messages with pictures.  My missionary has been in that area for exactly 8 days.  I’ve gotten 2 phone calls, 17 text messages, and 16 photos from Momma C during those 8 days.  What an awesome service!  What makes it even more remarkable to me is that Momma C is a staunch Baptist, raised by a Baptist Preacher whose best friend happened to be a Mormon Bishop.  What a great reminder she is that we really don’t have to have the same beliefs or viewpoints to just love and serve each other.  And as she said, “We really do believe mostly the same things”.  Bless her, for focusing on our similarities, not our differences.  ❤️

Now for the genealogy.

 

 

On Sunday I was fortunate enough to teach a group of 15 and 16 year olds a little bit about Family History.  I love doing that!

In preparing, I revisited one of my earliest “hunts” – Helen Boles.  Helen is my 3rd great grandaunt.  Learning her story took quite a bit of digging.  I planned to tell her story as part of my class, so I wanted the details to be fresh in my mind.  While reviewing, I also reviewed my Ancestry hints for Helen, her husband John, her children, and grandchildren.  Ancestry had a hint for a FindAGrave entry for Helen’s husband John.

The hint was accurate.  But even better was the fact that someone had uploaded a photo of the headstone!  Helen had paid for a monument and included information about her husband, granddaughter, and great-grandson on the stone.  This act of love just added to my depth of feeling for Helen.

This headstone find sent me on the hunt for other cemeteries in Scotland that might have been added to FindAGrave.  Then I just branched out and found a handful of headstones for my Boles family from Scotland.  Among them:

  • James Thomson Boles (grandson of Helen Boles), wife Mary Ann Storey, and sons James Thomson Boles and John Albert Storey Boles.  Scotland
  • James Boles (nephew of Helen Boles), wife Jessie Ferguson, and daughter Annie McFarlane Boles.  Scotland
  • Barbara Crow Boles (granddaughter of Helen Boles), and husband Robert Smith Yuille.  Scotland
  • Isabella Boles (mystery great granddaughter of Helen Boles), and husband James Moffat Marr.  Scotland
  • Isabella Muir Boles (niece of Helen Boles), and husband Alexander Kirkwood.  Ontario, Canada
  • John McLaren Boles (nephew of Helen Boles), and wife Jean/Jane Penman.  Ontario, Canada

There were a few other Boles entries in these cemeteries, but without the stones for confirmation, they are still hanging out on my “likely” list.

In the past, I haven’t had much luck finding cemeteries or headstones for family members outside of the US.  These new finds were especially exciting.

I am so grateful for the individuals who photographed the headstones and added them to FindAGrave.  This act of service helped me learn more about many of my family members.  But even better than learning more, was the connection I felt when viewing the stones, particularly the one that Helen had made for her husband, granddaughter, and great-grandson.

 

How about you?  Have you found any cemeteries or headstones on FindAGrave outside of the US?

 

Or even better, have you helped to photograph a foreign or obscure cemetery and uploaded the photos to FindAGrave?

 

If so, I commend you for your great service.

 

Happy Thursday!  My kids start school next week – more time for genealogy.  😉

 


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Dear Genealogy Bloggers, I love you!

I heart genealogy bloggers

For several weeks now I have been wanting to send a big thank you to two bloggers.  Randy Seaver of Geneamusings and Gail Dever of Genealogy à la carte.

Randy regularly posts lists of new and updated record collections.  These are not the blog posts I usually spend much time on.  (No offense Randy, I’m just a busy mom with a preschooler still at home…)  But for some reason, I started reading them more carefully lately.  Well, on May 12th he posted a list of new records available on FindMyPast.  Among the many collections was “National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914.  He noted that, “Over 34,000 York School records have been added…” to that collection.

Guess who lived in York?

My Hyde family.  Including Robert and Rosey.

Now, I have looked through the indexed school records available on Sheffield Indexers and found several records for my Hyde family.  But I thought I’d give it a look and see what was there.

Guess what?

There were SEVERAL records for my Hyde family on FindMyPast that have not yet been indexed on Sheffield Indexers.  And even better – there are images!

Like this one:

HYDE, Muriel Grace, 1909 to 1910 School Record

Do you know what that is?!

It’s a record of Muriel Grace Hyde, Rosey and Robert Hyde’s oldest daughter, being enrolled, and re-enrolled, and removed, and removed again from the Western Road Infants School in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England.  This means that I have several more dates for my timeline.  Yippee!!

Thank you Randy!

 

Now let’s talk a little bit about Gail.

Gail also posts quite often about new collections and other genealogy news.  On May 16th, she posted about an update to the WWI Canadian Expeditionary Force service files.  If you remember, that very collection gave me a hint of Norma.  And from there, well, the ensuing research took me on a crazy trip down the rabbit hole.

But here’s the thing.  My 2nd great grandfather, Francis Cyprien Duval, was also a member of the Canadian Expeditionary Forces.  I had looked for his file before.  A few times.  After all of the “D”s were supposedly indexed.  I never found it.  But when I read Gail’s post I thought I’d give it another try anyway.  Just in case.

And there it was!

In all it’s full color, 66 page glory.  It was very enlightening.  I thought Frank stayed in Canada doing work at home during his service.  He did not.  In fact, he lied about his age so he could join up and head overseas.  He was too old, so he fudged it.  I was so surprised by that.  He claimed to be 44 years and 4 months old when he enlisted.  A mere 8 months younger than the upper age limit of 45.  It didn’t work out for him though.

On page 58 there is this telling note from the doctor:

Screen Shot 2017-06-05 at 9.03.12 PM

“Is 54 years old and looks it.”  Hmmm, did he age considerably during the short time he was enlisted?  I mean visually.  Because just shortly before this note was written he got away with saying he was 44.  😉  There are so many cool details in this file.  It is awesome.

I have no idea why I never found it before.  I don’t know if it was indexed out of order and published well after the other “D” surnames or if I didn’t search carefully.  (That is soooooo not like me, but maybe I was distracted?)  Either way, I am very glad I read Gail’s post and decided to give it another look.

Thank you Gail!

 

So.  What is the lesson in all of this?  There are two.

First, I really love genealogy bloggers!  I think we are the friendliest bunch of bloggers out there.  We share our great finds, our search strategies, awesome websites and collections, cool stories, brick walls, research woes and wonders, and so many other tid-bits.  We all make the genealogy experience SO. MUCH. BETTER. for everyone.

And second, I will never again skip a “see what’s new at such-and-such website” post.  🙂

 

What do you think?  Do you love genealogy bloggers too?  Well if you do, share a little love today and thank your genealogy blogger friends.  Because they are just plain awesome!  ❤

 

 


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Rosey’s Girls – A Crazy Trip Down the Rabbit Hole

marrying mess

There’s that chart again – edited to include Rosey’s marriages and children.

There are some family puzzles that take years to solve.  You gather bits here and there that don’t always make sense.  Slowly, you learn more, but the core questions remain.  Then more records become available and you add those to the bits you already have and suddenly you are able to tie things together in a way you couldn’t before.  That is exactly the meandering path that Aunt Rosey has sent me on.  And what a journey it has been!

Almost two years ago I wrote about all of the matrimonial connections in this part of my tree.  Then, nearly a month ago now, I wrote about the Robert Hyde – Rosey Hyde marriage and child.  The questions that post brought up led me to spend time on a serious review of my sources and follow up on every single lead I had.  That process led me to find a tiny little hint of Norma.

 

Finding Norma meant that I discovered Rose Elvera Hyde wasn’t new to me.  I had just forgotten about her.

In fairness though, I had first known her as Elvira Kingham.

Let’s take a little journey down the rabbit hole together, shall we?

 

Many moons ago, the first record I found about Rosey Hyde – that I knew FOR SURE was about Rosey – was this marriage record to Harry Grant Kingham in 1914.

 

Rose Hyde & Harry Kingham, 1914 marriage record

“British Columbia Marriage Registrations, 1859-1932; 1937-1938,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDZN-H68 : 21 January 2016), Harry Kingham and Rosey Hyde, 19 Apr 1914; citing Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, British Columbia Archives film number B11378, Vital Statistics Agency, Victoria; FHL microfilm 1,983,706.

 

Rosey is listed as a spinster, which I had no reason to question.  I figured the record was accurate and thought I had found her first marriage.  The natural next step was to try to learn everything I could about Harry Grant Kingham.  I didn’t find much.  But I did find this US Consular Record.

 

KINGHAM, Harry Grant, 1915 US Consular Record

Ancestry.com. U.S., Consular Registration Certificates, 1907-1918 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2013. http://ancstry.me/2oJg9ew

I hadn’t yet become savvy about how complicated this family was when I first found this document.  It lists two daughters for Harry that were born prior to his marriage to Rosey.  I tried to research them and just couldn’t find anything about a Grace Kingham or an Elvira Kingham.  I made the natural assumption that they were his daughters prior to his marriage to Rosey.  I tried to find a first wife for him – even though he was listed as a bachelor on his marriage record to Rosey – no luck.

So what did I do?

I added two daughters to Harry Grant Kingham with an unknown mother.  The girls were not attached to Rosey in my tree.

Now, fast forward to a few weeks ago…

When I found Rosey’s death record and discovered she had a daughter named Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson, I had forgotten all about Elvira Kingham.

Thank goodness for that pesky little travel record that was generated when Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson went to visit her sister Mrs. Norma ?rance in 1945.  That record led me to revisit every source attached to every person connected to Rosey Hyde.

So there I was, suddenly staring at two different Elveras in my tree – Elvira Kingham and Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson.  But they were really the same person.  So I merged them.

I quit taking any parent child relationships for granted at this point and used every combo of names for each girl.  I also quit considering Rosey’s husbands as minor character actors in her life.  The girls used Harry’s last name so I needed to know everything about Harry that I could find.

The next notable stop down the rabbit hole was Harry’s WWI Canadian Expeditionary Forces Personnel File.  There were plenty of facts about Harry but there were two pages that were especially enlightening about Rosey’s girls.

 

HYDE, Muriel Grace, record

Library and Archives Canada; Ottawa, Ontario, Canada; CEF Personnel Files; Reference: RG 150; Volume: Box 5181 – 42; http://ancstry.me/2qc1mci

 

This particular image was page 38 of Harry’s file and it told me that Grace was actually named Muriel Grace.

 

KINGHAM, Norma Robertine, record

Library and Archives Canada; Ottawa, Ontario, Canada; CEF Personnel Files; Reference: RG 150; Volume: Box 5181 – 42; http://ancstry.me/2qc1mci

 

This image was page 50 of Harry’s file and is the second mention of Norma – Norma Robertine Kingham – to be exact.

Suddenly, Rosey’s three girls began to make more sense to me.  I updated Grace in my tree with the name Muriel Grace Hyde, added Norma, and away I went.

Ancestry.com very quickly added a few hints to Muriel, including this Washington State Application for License to Wed.

 

HYDE, Muriel Grace and Walter E Groome, 1924 application for license to wed

Washington State Archives; Olympia, Washington; Marriage Affidavits; http://ancstry.me/2q2GMMs

 

It certainly matched the few details I had about Muriel Grace.  The fact that the witness was a Robert Hyde was intriguing, but even more interesting to me was this line in the application: “…I further swear that there is no legal impediment to their marriage…and [they] are not nearer of kin to each other than second cousins.”

Hmmmmm… if that Muriel Grace was my Muriel Grace, and if that Robert Hyde was my Robert Hyde, did he feel sheepish signing that form and remembering that Muriel’s parentage was himself and his niece Rosey?

That is some genealogical irony right there.

Next, I pulled up the actual marriage certificate.

 

HYDE, Muriel G and Walter E Groome, 1924 Marriage Record

Washington State Archives; Olympia, Washington; Marriage Certificates; http://ancstry.me/2otrp2x

 

Muriel listed her parents as Robert Hyde, born in Sheffield, Eng and Alice Whiteley, born in Sheffield, Eng.  Robert and Alice are the two witnesses to this union.

What?!

 

Quick recap – Alice Whiteley Hyde is the aunt turned step-mom of Rosey Hyde.  At the time of Muriel Grace Hyde’s birth, Alice Whiteley Hyde was married to Henry Hyde – her first marriage and his second.  If she was ever married to Robert Hyde is was after she was widowed first by Henry, then by his brother Arthur.  She was the informant on Robert’s death record and listed him as the divorced spouse of Rosey, not as her husband.

So, was Muriel the daughter of Alice or Rosey?

If it was Alice, then Alice had a child with her husband Henry’s brother while she was still married to Henry, then after Henry’s death proceeded to marry a different brother – Arthur, before finally settling down to live with the third brother Robert when she was once again widowed.

That seems too crazy, even for this family.

Did Muriel list Alice as her mother – because Alice was there, conveniently had the last name of Hyde as if she was married to Robert, and had a different maiden name – in an effort to avoid an uncomfortable conversation about why her mother’s maiden name matched her father’s name?  Especially when the license required that bride and groom not be more closely related than second cousins?  Was that little question putting Muriel on the spot mentally?  Was it highlighting her uncomfortable past?  Was Muriel lying to save face?  Was she lying because she was embarrassed?

And, why was Robert at the wedding but not Rosey?  In 1924 Rosey was a widowed single mom with two girls at home.  Maybe she couldn’t afford to travel from Vancouver, BC to Vancouver, Washington?

I hoped that Muriel’s death record might reveal something, anything, but unfortunately it is an index only record on both the BC Archives and FamilySearch.  FamilySearch does hold the microfilm on which the record exists, but it is stored in the Granite Mountain Vault.  {I will probably take a little trip up to Salt Lake to view the film, I just have to remember how to request a film from the vault… That is, if that film is allowed to be viewed…}

But I digress, the index to Muriel’s death lists this:

 

Screen Shot 2017-04-25 at 3.55.32 PM

“British Columbia Death Registrations, 1872-1986; 1992-1993”, database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLLT-LM9 : 13 April 2017), Muriel Grace Groome, 1936.

 

Muriel is listed as having a father named Robert Hyde.  I find no record of any children born to Muriel and Walter during their 12 years of marriage.

At this point I reviewed a few old family notes and letters.  Now be careful not to get lost here.  I found a letter written by Vera, daughter of Alice Hyde Duval who is the sister of Rosey Hyde.  Yes that’s right, both sisters named a daughter Elvera.  This letter written by Vera to my Grandma, mentions an old scrapbook that Vera kept.  She asked my Grandma if she wanted to have it.

I had a lightbulb moment and remembered that my mom’s cousin Heather had emailed me a few scans of an old scrapbook she had.  I dug through my emails and found those scans.  Among them was this page.

 

valmore 4

 

When Heather sent this to me all those years ago, I had NO EARTHLY IDEA who Mr. and Mrs. Peter Williamson were.  I did some basic searching but came up empty.  I figured they were important to someone in my family so I went ahead and added them to FamilySearch and uploaded the announcement.  But now?  The minute that image opened, I knew exactly who they were – this was a marriage invitation for the daughter of Rose Elvera Hyde and Peter Williamson.

Rosey was a Grandma!

This union of Carole Rose Williamson and Gordon David Zilke produced at least four children.  Of those four children, at least one has died.  But the other three may be living.  I did a little Facebook digging and found a small cluster of living descendants.  Because this whole thing started from the position of thinking that Rosey was a gay barber who had no children, I was completely shocked to discover that Rosey has living descendants.  I was not expecting that at all.  I wonder if any of them know anything about Rosey?  I wonder if any of them have pictures of Rosey?

Because I think I do.

Duval - mystery marriage

I think this photo is of Rosey Hyde & Harry Grant Kingham at the time of their marriage in 1914.

I’m getting sidetracked again…

At the time of Rose Elvera Hyde’s Marriage to Peter Williamson, she listed her parents as Robert Hyde, born in England, and Rose Hyde, born in Golden, BC.

 

HYDE, Rose Elvera and Peter Williamson, 1927 Marriage Record

“British Columbia Marriage Registrations, 1859-1932; 1937-1938,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JD8Y-NXZ : 21 January 2016), Peter Williamson and Rose Elvera Hyde, 04 Jul 1927; citing Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, British Columbia Archives film number B13753, Vital Statistics Agency, Victoria; FHL microfilm 2,074,506.

 

At the time of Rose Elvera Hyde’s death, her parents are listed as Robert Hyde, born in Sheffield, England, and Rose Whitely, born in Golden, BC.

 

 

The records for both Muriel Grace and Rose Elvera Hyde are inconsistent in identifying their parentage.  But they are clearly describing the same grouping of people.  Were these inaccuracies intentional or accidental?  Were they hiding something?  It seems like it.

This leaves one more daughter – Norma.  The daughter that is definitely not a child of Robert Hyde.  Norma, the daughter of Rosey Hyde, and Harry Grant Kingham.  Norma, who led me deep into the rabbit hole.  Norma, who changed her name to Barbara.  Norma, who deserves her own post.

So here I am stuck in this mental loop where I just can’t seem to reconcile everything.  Part of me wants to believe that Rosey’s birth is the key.  That Rosey isn’t really the daughter of Henry Hyde and Ann Whiteley.  That maybe, just maybe, Rosey is the child of another couple, but that Ann and Henry took her in for some reason.  That reason wouldn’t be hard to come up with.  They were living in the extreme west in a very tiny little speck of a town.  So maybe Rosey is my adopted 2nd great grand aunt.  And just when I think I have myself good and convinced that this might be the case, I talk myself back out of it because there is no baby girl born in Golden, BC on the date that Rosey claims as her birthdate.  No baby girl of ANY name born in the entire year of 1883 in Golden, BC.

Where does this all leave me?

I’m not sure.

There is a story here – that is for certain.  It’s not a traditional story.  But man is it intriguing.  I have a few more records I am trying to scrounge up that I hope will shed some light on the core question – were Rosey Hyde and Robert Hyde both husband and wife AND uncle and niece?

  • I have reached out to the appropriate agency to try to get a copy of Robert and Rosey’s divorce decree – if it exists.
  • I have requested a copy of Alice Whiteley Hyde’s probate record.
  • I have ordered the Homestead File for Alice Whiteley Hyde and Henry Hyde’s homestead in Alaska.
  • I have requested any records about this whole lot from the church in Alaska that Alice Hyde Duval’s oldest son was baptized in – maybe there will be another event for that family in that church.
  • I need to get my hands on the image of Muriel Grace Hyde Groome’s death record if I can.
  • And lastly, I am currently building a spreadsheet with everyone’s entries in the City Directories to help me understand the timeline even better.  It is very enlightening.

 

And that, my friends, is where I am at.  Still undecided.  Still searching.  My core question is most likely unanswerable.  But I am so glad that I asked the question because I have learned so much more about this part of my family.  I have learned so much more about Rosey.

Rosey has become a very different person to me.  The picture of her life in my heart is very delicate and intricate.  There are details that come from the nuances of the records that lead me to believe that Harry was the great love of her life, that Neil was a loving old age companion, and that Robert, well, Robert seems to be the villain.  I don’t know if that’s fair, but that is who he is becoming in my mind.

Thank you for journeying down the rabbit hole with me.  Don’t get lost, it can be scary down here.  Head back up to light if you can.  😉

 

Happy Wednesday, I hope you make a fascinating genealogy discovery today!

 

 

ps – Despite all of the records that I included, there are so many that I did not include.  Among those are a few international travel records for Robert, Rosey, and the two older girls.  Hmmmm…  

 

pps – If you happen to be one of Rosey’s living descendants, email me – amberlysfamilyhistory {at} yahoo {dot} com.  Let’s put our tid-bits together and make this picture as clear as we can.  That is, if you can forgive me.

 

 


15 Comments

Incest?! – An Update: ALWAYS Go To The Next Image!

Whiteley - Hyde

Yep, it’s that image again.

Last week I begged for your help to disprove my theory of incest.  My friend Cathy commented, “The biggest sore thumb I noticed was – who is Norma?”

Exactly?!  Who is Norma.  I had already tried a bunch of things and just couldn’t find her.  But after Cathy asked the same question I was asking, I decided I really needed to find her.  I rededicated myself and used all of my fancy, sneaky, super-smart search strategies and I got a whole lotta nothin’.

But give me a puzzle and I just can’t stop.  So I revisited everyone in that matrimonial mess.  I found a lot more info – but nothing that answered my core question: Were Robert & Rosey Hyde husband and wife, AND uncle and niece?

The one thing I did find was a hint of Norma.  And I found it in an unlikely place.  A WWI Canadian Expeditionary Forces Personnel File.

But the really important part…

The absolutely CRITICAL part…

The it-would-have-been-super-easy-to-miss-Norma-completely part…

Norma showed up on page 50 of the file.

That’s right – page number FIVE-OH.

After a whole lotta nothin’, suddenly, there was Norma.

Thankfully I learned the lesson many years ago that many records have more than one page.  Some records have more than two pages.  And occasionally you will find a record that is a whopping 67 pages long – like the one that gave me a hint of Norma.

Now you probably want to know what exactly I learned about Norma.

And you probably want to know what else I learned about that mess up there.

Here’s the thing – it’s so complicated that my poor brain is still trying to sort it all out.  My poor brain is trying to figure out how to even begin to explain what I have learned.

So for now, let me just say that Norma exists.  She appears to be a sister of Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson.  I know her approximate birthdate.  And I know who two of her possible parents are.

The rest is going to have to wait until I can find the words.  And it’s going to take more than one post.  Because that family up there is a whole mess of crazy.

But my dear friends, this is what I want to leave you with today:

When you are looking at an image on any website – always click to the next image.  And then keep right on clicking until you come to an image that is about someone else.  The longest record I have ever found was 137 pages.  It was also a WWI record.

This WWI Canadian Expeditionary Forces Personnel File was BORRRRRRING!  And I like LOVE old records.  But it just kept saying the same things over and over and over.

Until it didn’t.

Until it told me that Norma exists.  That she is part of my family.

So whatever you do today in your genealogical endeavors, PLEASE, for the love of Norma, CLICK TO THE NEXT PAGE!

More updates on Incest?! coming next week.


21 Comments

Incest?

Whiteley - Hyde

That’s a terrible title isn’t it?  But man, I don’t know what else to call it.  I’m really hoping that the records aren’t telling me what I think they are telling me.  Please, be the judge.  Find my mistakes, point them out.  Help me disprove my own position.

So here goes.

In May of 2015 I shared that diagram up there and wrote, among other things, “Sometime between the 1920 census and Robert’s death in 1928, it appears he may have married his niece Rosey Hyde – his first known marriage and her second of three.  Hmmmmm.  That is a story worthy of its own post.”

At the time that I wrote that, I was operating under one rather large assumption – that Rosey was gay.  Why did I think that?  Well, my Grandma knew Rosey.  She describes her as a gay barber.  I know that isn’t definitive, but relying on that piece of information allowed me to consider a better conclusion than incest.

So what was the conclusion I was considering when I wrote the post mentioning their possible marriage?  Because he had never married previously and she was, in my Grandma’s estimation, gay, I wondered if they legally married so that he could more easily leave his property to her.  They were both living in a country other than the ones in which they were born.  No one knew their family.  Could Uncle have married Niece for the simple purpose of keeping property in the family?

In the intervening months I have learned more about each of them.  But let’s start at the beginning.  This handwritten note is just one section of an outline created by Vera Duval in the 1960s.  Vera is my great grandaunt.  She is the daughter of Alice Hyde Duval.  She personally knew all of the people at the center of this post.  In the first section she names her aunt, Rosey as having 3 last names – Hyde, Kingham, Carlson.  In the third section she writes:

“Robert Hyde the II [Vera is only indicating that he is the second known Robert Hyde in the family, she does this often.  Robert’s parents are Henry and Sarah] – 1st husband of Rose Hyde – Born – England – Died – Vancouver, Wash. – about yr 1926 – 75 years of age – old age.  Henry – Arthur – Robert – Brothers – orig – 5 bros – Eng – Louie & John – 1 sister Letitia died at 16 – Eng…”

HYDE outline

In the entirety of this document I have so far only proven things to be correct, or very nearly correct, as I have looked for sources.  There are plenty of things that seem suspect, like the millionaire bachelor that owned diamond mines, but the things I have researched from this document have been mostly accurate with just slight variations from what Vera wrote.  When I first read the section about Robert Hyde being married to his niece Rosey I thought that I was definitely misunderstanding, that couldn’t be what Vera meant.  Here are the records I have found.

Baptism Record for Robert Hide,1862

“England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975,” database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPG6-Y4W : 30 December 2014), Robert Hide, 07 Jan 1862; citing Sheffield, York, England, reference ; FHL microfilm 6,343,876, fiche 2, 1862, page 92.

Robert Hyde was born 18 July 1861 in Sheffield, Yorkshire, England to Henry Hyde and Sarah Marsden.

1871 census

1871 England Census for Household of Henry Hyde, Class: RG10; Piece: 4676; Folio: 166; Page: 32; GSU roll: 847228, http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7619&h=28376327&ssrc=pt&tid=11998768&pid=13128573021&usePUB=true

 

In 1871 Robert is found living with his parents Henry & Sarah and his siblings Ann, John, and Arthur.  His oldest brother Henry, the father of Rosey, is already out of the home.

HYDE, Rosey, 1884 Birth Record

“British Columbia Birth Registrations, 1854-1903,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDZJ-1B6 : 12 December 2014), Hyde in entry for MM9.1.1/JDZJ-1BD:, 07 Nov 1884; citing British Columbia Archives film number B13808, Vital Statistics Agency, Victoria; FHL microfilm 2,114,957.

 

This birth record is for a daughter born to Henry Hyde and Ann Whiteley on 7 November 1884 in Golden, BC.  Vera listed Rosey’s birthdate as 14 October 1883 in Golden, BC.  I can’t find a birth record that matches the date Vera gave.  Ann died 3 days after this child was born.  Henry was gone for work and came home to find his wife had given birth to a daughter and then died.  He packed up his two (possibly three) girls and went back to England.  He married his deceased wife Ann’s younger sister Alice in January of 1885.  [This union makes everything more confusing because his older daughter is also named Alice.]  He leaves Rosey with his parents in England and then Henry, Alice, and Alice head back to Canada and eventually settle in Alaska.

1891 census

1891 England Census for household of Henry Hyde, Class: RG12; Piece: 3799; Folio: 18; Page: 30; GSU roll: 6098909, http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=6598&h=4645092&ssrc=pt&tid=11998768&pid=-354645760&usePUB=true

 

In 1891 Rosey can be found living with her grandparents, Henry & Sarah, in Sheffield.  Also in the household are Rosey’s Uncle Arthur and his 1st wife Mary with their daughter Ann, and Rosey’s Uncle Louis.

What follows next is a quiet period.  I know that Rosey leaves England, possibly with her Uncle Arthur as they are both found near Henry & Alice in later years.  Robert also heads west but I have not yet found any travel or immigration records for Robert, Rosey, or Arthur.  There is a 1900 Census record in Nome, Alaska for a ‘Miss Hyde’ that could be Rosey.  Unfortunately, the record only lists her name, no age or birthplace.

Rose Elvera birth

Washington State Archives; Olympia, Washington; Washington Births, 1891-1919; Film Info: Various county birth registers. Microfilm, http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1209&h=284297&ssrc=pt&tid=11998768&pid=420077563553&usePUB=true

Rose Elvera Hyde is born 6 April 1908 to Robert Hyde & Rose Hind in Clark, Washington.  As later records will prove, Rose Hind is Rosey Hyde.  No marriage record for Robert & Rosey has been found.

Rose Hyde & Harry Kingham, 1914 marriage record

“British Columbia Marriage Registrations, 1859-1932; 1937-1938,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDZN-H68 : 21 January 2016), Harry Kingham and Rosey Hyde, 19 Apr 1914; citing Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, British Columbia Archives film number B11378, Vital Statistics Agency, Victoria; FHL microfilm 1,983,706.

 

On 19 April 1914, Rosey Hyde married Harry Kingham.  She is listed as a spinster which doesn’t jive with the note written by Vera stating that Robert was Rosey’s 1st husband.

1920 census

Year: 1920; Census Place: Bush Prairie, Clark, Washington; Roll: T625_1921; Page: 13A; Enumeration District: 4; Image: 952, http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=6061&h=71185051&ssrc=pt&tid=11998768&pid=13128573021&usePUB=true

In 1920, Robert Hyde is found living in Bush Prairie, Clark, Washington with his sister-in-law Alice Whiteley Hyde.  At this point Alice has already been married to Henry & Arthur, Robert’s brothers.  On this census they are both listed as married but she is listed as his sister, not his wife.  Alice was most recently married to Arthur who died in 1919.  No marriage records have been found for Robert.

HYDE, Rose Elvera and Peter Williamson, 1927 Marriage Record

“British Columbia Marriage Registrations, 1859-1932; 1937-1938,” database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JD8Y-NXZ : 21 January 2016), Peter Williamson and Rose Elvera Hyde, 04 Jul 1927; citing Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, British Columbia Archives film number B13753, Vital Statistics Agency, Victoria; FHL microfilm 2,074,506.

 

On 4 July 1927, Rose Elvera Hyde married Peter Williamson in Vancouver, BC.  Importantly, she lists her parents as Robert Hyde born in England, and Rose Hyde born in Golden, BC.

HYDE, Robert, 1928 Death Record

Death certificates (Washington (State), 1907-1960 ; Index to death certificates, 1907-1979, FHL microfilm 2022474

 

 

On 8 July 1928, Robert Hyde died in Orchards, Clark, Washington.  His parents are listed as Henry Hyde & Sarah.  His birth date is listed as 7 July 1858 – which does not match our Robert.  He is listed as divorced with his former spouse being Rose (Kingham) Hyde.  The informant on the death record is Robert’s sister-in-law Alice Whiteley Hyde (Rosey’s aunt) who was living in his home in 1920.

The birth date difference gave me a glimmer of hope that maybe the Robert who married Rosey and lived with Alice was not their Uncle and brother-in-law.  I scoured FindMyPast, Ancestry, and FamilySearch looking for a Robert Hyde with the birthdate found on this death record.  But alas, the only Robert Hyde near this birth year who could match the man in this death record is the Robert Hyde born to Henry Hyde & Sarah Marsden.

Kingham, Rose & Neil Carlson, 1937 Marriage Record

Ancestry.com. Washington, Marriage Records, 1854-2013 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2012., http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2378&h=4132196&ssrc=pt&tid=11998768&pid=-354645760&usePUB=true

On 27 March 1937, Rose Kingham married Neil Carlson in Whatcom, Washington.

Hyde, Rose, 1945 travel record

The National Archives at Washington, D.C.; Washington, D.C.; Manifests of Alien Arrivals at Blaine, Washington; NAI: 2675039; Record Group Title: Records of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 1787 – 2004; Record Group Number: 85; Series Number: A3599; Roll Number: 024, http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1075&h=19553112&ssrc=pt&tid=11998768&pid=420077563553&usePUB=true

 

On 9 August 1945, Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson entered the US to visit her sister Norma ?rance who was living in Mt. Vernon, Washington.  Rose Elvera lists her birthplace as Washougall, Wash and her birthdate as April ? 1908.  Washougal is in Clark County, and her birthdate is 6 April 1908, so this is a match to her birth record.  But who is Norma?  Are they full sisters or half-sisters?  I haven’t found any other mention of Norma so far.

HYDE, Rosey, 1970 Death Record

“British Columbia Death Registrations, 1872-1986; 1992-1993”, database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLYZ-GF4 : 30 September 2015), Rosey Carlson, 1970.

 

On 1 March 1970, Rosey Carlson died in Delta, BC.  The informant is her daughter Elvera Williamson.  Rosey is listed as a widow.  Her parents are listed as Henry Hyde & Ann Whitley, both born in England.  Her birth is listed as 14 October 1883 in Golden, BC.  This birthdate matches the handwritten note by her niece Vera Duval, but not the birth record I found in 1884.  [Does this mean Henry & Ann had 3 girls, not 2?  I’m still not sure.]

So, were the Robert Hyde & Rosey Hyde, who were the parents of Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson, uncle & niece?

 

I keep reviewing the records hoping to see a different explanation.  I can’t find one.

Can you?

 

 

I hope so.