Proof Arguments

Identifying Parents for Joseph Miet in 18th Century France Through Godparent & Witness Analysis

thegenealogygirl
Screen Shot 2019-11-21 at 1.52.31 PM
Rosières-sur-Mance church as seen on Google Maps.

 

The marriage and death records for Joseph Miet do not directly name his parents, but tracking and researching godparents and witnesses in the records for his life and the lives of his children illuminated the identity of his siblings and parents.

 

Joseph Miet and Jeanne Duffant were married 14 May 1727 in Rosières-sur-Mance, a small commune in the Haute-Saône department in northeastern France.1  Their marriage record is succinct and does not list the names of their parents.  It does state they were marrying with the consent of all of their parents, which indicates all four parents were living.  Among the signatories to the marriage are:

  • Joseph Myet — likely groom
  • N. Cocagne — connection currently unknown
  • Nicola Miet — likely relative of the groom, relationship unnamed in this record
  • Nicolas Rets — connection currently unknown
  • CL. Lucot. — Priest2
MIET, Joseph & Jeanne Duffant, 1727 Marriage crop
Marriage record of Joseph Miet & Jeanne Duffant, 14 May 1727 in Rosières-sur-Mance.  [See footnote 1]

 

Joseph and Jeanne were the parents of twelve children, four daughters and eight sons:

  • Anne Françoise Miet, 1729–1789 3
  • Jean Miet, 1731– 4
  • Nicolas Miet, 1732– 5
  • Claude Miet, 1735– 6
  • Jean Miet, 1736–1741 7
  • Jean François Miet, 1739–1739 8
  • Joseph Miet, 1740–1785 9
  • Françoise Miet, 1743–1743 10
  • Jean Miet, 1744–1744 11
  • Jean Baptiste Miet, 1746–1807 12
  • Jeanne Miet, 1748–1748 13
  • Gabriel Miet, 1751–1753 14

 

Of Joseph and Jeanne’s twelve children, three had a godparent with the surname of Miet:

  • Anne Françoise’s godfather was François Miet15
  • Nicolas’ godfather was Nicolas Miet16
  • Jeanne’s godmother was Jeanne Miet17

Both François and Nicolas Miet signed the baptism records for their respective godchildren.  Jeanne Miet was noted as illiterate in Jeanne’s baptism record.  The relationships between the godparents and children were not named in those baptismal records.

The parents of this large family left no additional clues about Joseph’s parentage in their death and burial records.  Joseph Miet died before his wife on 2 September 1774 in Rosières-sur-Mance and was buried the next day in neighboring Vernois-sur-Mance.  Attending his burial were his son Joseph Miet, his son-in-law Claude Vauthrin, and two individuals whose relationships are not named — Jean Claude Mordin and Simeon Dufand.  Joseph’s parents were not named in his death and burial record.18

Jeanne Duffant died thirteen years after her husband on 26 October 1787 in Rosières-sur-Mance and was buried the next day in the same place.  Attending her burial were her son-in-law Claude Vauthrin and her son Jean Baptiste Miet. She is listed as the widow of Joseph Miet in her death and burial record but her parents are not listed, nor are there any additional information items regarding her husband, Joseph.19

The three Miet godparents — François, Nicolas, and Jeanne — would prove to be the father and siblings of Joseph Miet.  Nicolas Miet and wife Jeanne Renet were the parents of at least three children, including Joseph, François, and Jeanne.

 

 

Establishing the Miet Sibling Relationships

 

François Miet was married twice, first to Margueritte Perney in 1729, who died ten years later, and second to Anne Cornaire in 1740.  The 1740 marriage record identifies “Joseph Myet” as a witness to the marriage and François’ brother.20

Three additional records support the sibling relationship between Joseph & François:

  • 22 February 1741, Jean Miet, son of Joseph Miet and Jeanne Duffant, died and was buried in Rosières-sur-Mance in the presence of “Joseph Miet son pere et de François Miet son oncle.”  In English, “Joseph Miet his father and of François Miet his uncle.”21
  • 2 March 1756, Claude Miet, son of François Miet and Anne Cornaire, was buried in Rosières-sur-Mance.  Witnessing his burial were, “françois Miet Son pere et Joseph Miet Son oncle.” In English, “François Miet his father and Joseph Miet his uncle.”22
  • 30 January 1759, “Claude Vautherin” and “françoisse Miet,” daughter of Joseph Miet and Jeanne Duffant, were married in Rosières-sur-Mance.  Among the witnesses to the marriage was “François Miet oncle de lepouse.” [sic] In English, “François Miet uncle of the bride.”23

These three records, in combination with François’ 1740 marriage record to Anne, clearly link Joseph and François as brothers.  One additional record supports this relationship and identifies Jeanne Miet as their sister.

“Jeanne Myet” married Jacque Garde 7 February 1741 in Vernois-sur-Mance.  Among the witnesses to the marriage were “françois myet son frere [additional writing lost in the spine of the book] Joseph Myet aussy son frere.”  [sic] In English, “François Myet her brother — Joseph Myet also her brother.”24  It is important to note that the signatures of Joseph and François on this record match the signatures of the Joseph and François Miet of Rosières-sur-Mance.

 

 

Establishing Nicolas Miet as the Father of François and Jeanne Miet

 

Three records help establish Nicolas Miet as the father of François and Jeanne Miet.  One of those records also names Jeanne Renet as the mother of François:

  • The 1729 marriage of François and Margueritte Perney states that François is the “fils de nicolas miet et de Jeanne Renet.”  In English, the “son of Nicolas Miet and of Jeanne Renet.”25
  • The 1740 marriage of François Miet to Anne Cornaire states that he was married, “en presençe de Nicolas myet pere du contractant.”  In English, “in the presence of Nicolas Myet the father of the groom.”26
  • Jeanne Miet’s 1741 marriage to Jacque Garde states that they were married, “en presence de . . . Nicolas Myet pere de la contractante.”  In English, “in the presence of . . . Nicolas Myet father of the bride.”27

 

 

Identifying the Wife of Nicolas Miet and the Mother of His Children

 

François Miet’s 1729 marriage record states his mother is Jeanne Renet.28  Jeanne’s name does not appear in the other marriage records nor in the death records for Nicolas’ two confirmed children François and Jeanne Miet.

Nicolas Miet’s own death and burial record helps provide a link between Nicolas and Jeanne Renet.  When Nicolas died 8 April 1758, his burial record describes him as the “voeuf de Jeanne Reinet.” [sic]  In English, “widower of Jeanne Reinet.”29

No marriage record for a Nicolas Miet or a Jeanne Renet is found in Rosières-sur-Mance between 1683 and 1729.30 In nearby Saint Marcel, a small commune 3 km from Rosières-sur-Mance, there is a marriage for a “Nicolaum Myet” and a “Joannam Renet” on 16 January 1702.31  This marriage was recorded in Latin.  The French translation of those names is Nicolas Myet and Jeanne Renet.

No baptisms were recorded for a Joseph Miet or a François Miet in Rosières-sur-Mance between 1683 and 1717 or in Saint Marcel between 1700 and 1717 for any parents.32

There was, however, a baptism recorded for Jeanne Miet, daughter of Nicolas Miet and Jeanne Renet, in Saint Marcel on 25 April 1717.33 This record is unique in that Jeanne’s father Nicolas signed the record.  A baptism record from this time period and place would typically only have the signatures of the godparents and the priest.34 This distinctive signature matches Nicolas’ signature from the other records he signed during his life, linking this Saint Marcel couple to Joseph Miet and François Miet of Rosières-sur-Mance.

Nicolas Miet Signature Study

Nicolas Miet and Jeanne Renet’s 1702 marriage predates the likely births of Joseph Miet and François Miet based on their ages at death.

Joseph died 2 September 1774 and was described as being, “agé denviron soixante six ans.”  In English, “aged about sixty-six years.”35  That gives Joseph an approximate birth year of 1708.

François died 27 April 1778 and was described as being, “agé de soixante neuf ans.”  In English, “aged sixty-nine years.”36  That gives François an approximate birth year of 1709.

Based on the marriage date of Nicolas and Jeanne, and the approximate birth years of Joseph and François, it is logical that Jeanne Renet is also the mother of Joseph and François.  Moving father from Rosières-sur-Mance and Saint Marcel, potential birth records are found in the commune of Amance, 24.6 km from Rosières-sur-Mance and 21.6 km from Saint Marcel. In Amance, there are also records for two potential daughters.  The timeline for possible family events in Amance is this:

  • 21 December 1704, death of Marie Myet, daughter of Nicolas Myet and Jeanne Rennet37
  • 1 May 1705, baptism of Jeanne Myet, daughter of Nicolas Myet and Jeanne Renet38
  • 15 December 1705, death of Jeanne Myet, daughter of Nicolas Myet and Jeanne Rennet39
  • 2 January 1707, baptism of Joseph Myet, son of Nicolas Myet and Jeanne Rennet40
  • 23 July 1709, baptism of Claude François Myet, son of Nicolas Myet and Jeanne Rennet41
Screen Shot 2019-11-21 at 2.05.34 PM
From Google Maps

 

 

Conclusion

 

The records for Joseph Miet’s marriage and death do not name his parents directly.  Carefully tracking and then fully researching each witness and godparent named in the records for Joseph’s life and the lives of his children identified his family.  Joseph is the older brother of François and Jeanne Miet, and the son of Nicolas Miet and Jeanne Renet. When records do not directly provide the answer we seek, we must carefully note every information item those records do contain so they can lead us to the records that when combined, provide an indirect answer to our research question.

 

 

 

  1. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, marriage of Joseph Miet & Jeanne Duffant, 14 May 1727, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 85 of 127, left page, third entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_6d639fbb8410972ae0c4549dc4502dfd#id:1069224138?gallery=true&center=717.000,-1272.000&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 23 September 2019).
  2. The abbreviation of “prê” seen with his signature in the church records for this commune is an abbreviation of “prêtre” or Priest.
  3. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Anne Françoise Miet, 20 April 1729, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 91 of 127, right page, third entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_6d639fbb8410972ae0c4549dc4502dfd#id:1094159205?gallery=true&center=1565.084,-861.982&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 23 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1782-1791, death & burial of Françoise Miet, 2 & 3 July 1789, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_3E454_7 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1782/1791, image 87 of 112, left page, second entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta7cd8f567d1cca809/daogrp/0#id:562367290?gallery=true&zoom=9&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&center=577.921,-1180.454 : accessed 20 November 2019).
  4. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Jean Miet, 2 January 1731, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 97 of 127, right page, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_6d639fbb8410972ae0c4549dc4502dfd#id:1099700331?gallery=true&center=1607.334,-1612.798&zoom=11&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 23 September 2019).  No death & burial record has been found for this Jean in any of the Rosières-sur-Mance church books between his birth and 1767, the author turned the pages of each book and read every record.  Two subsequent children in this family were named Jean, one in 1736, one in 1744. The Jean born in 1736 died in 1741. It seems likely that this Jean died prior to his brother’s birth in 1736.
  5. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Nicolas Miet, 30 April & 1 May 1732, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 104 of 127, left page, first entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_6d639fbb8410972ae0c4549dc4502dfd#id:1726771090?gallery=true&center=692.493,-449.932&zoom=11&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 23 September 2019).  No death & burial record has been found for Nicolas in any of the Rosières-sur-Mance church books between his birth and 1767, the author turned the pages of each book and read every record.
  6. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Claude Miet, 11 & 12 May 1735, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 117 of 127, left page, second entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0#id:1758170804?gallery=true&center=710.040,-746.276&zoom=11&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 25 September 2019).  No death & burial record has been found for Claude in any of the Rosières-sur-Mance church books between his birth and 1767, the author turned the pages of each book and read every record.
  7. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Jean Miet, 26 & 27 October 1736, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 121 of 127, right page, first full entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0#id:1781258829?gallery=true&center=1654.633,-608.660&zoom=11&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 25 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, death & burial of Jean Miet, 22 February 1741, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 32 of 77, right page, second entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1691400464?gallery=true&center=1694.669,-835.255&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 11 November 2019).
  8. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, birth & baptism of Jean François Miet, 13 February 1739, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 13 of 77, right page, third entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1635065683?gallery=true&center=1674.493,-1096.689&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 25 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, death & burial of Jean François Miet, 22 & 23 February 1739, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 13 of 77, right page, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1635065683?gallery=true&center=1761.141,-1547.694&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 25 September 2019).
  9. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, birth & baptism of Joseph Myet, 9 April 1740, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 25 of 77, right page, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1665541876?gallery=true&center=1738.085,-1501.386&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 25 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1782-1791, death & burial of Joseph Miet, 12 April 1785, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_3E454_7 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1782/1791, image 39 of 112, right page, first full entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta7cd8f567d1cca809/daogrp/0#id:421068577?gallery=true&center=1678.714,-822.199&zoom=9&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 20 November 2019).
  10. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1667-1744, birth & baptism of Françoise Myet, 7 March 1743, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT10 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1667/1744, image 95 of 108, left page, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta279434059760a4f8/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_31e8b6cccd47709587b638c56c54db8f#id:794017383?gallery=true&center=656.178,-1206.174&zoom=11&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 26 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1667-1744, death & burial of Françoise Myet, 14 March 1743, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT10 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1667/1744, image 95 of 108, right page, top entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta279434059760a4f8/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_31e8b6cccd47709587b638c56c54db8f#id:794017383?gallery=true&center=1576.481,-301.698&zoom=12&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 26 September 2019).
  11. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, birth & baptism of Jean Myet, 13 & 14 December 1744, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 66 of 77, left page, third entry [this includes the entry that was crossed out], (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1780982001?gallery=true&center=681.019,-1088.763&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 28 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, death & burial of Jean Miet, 21 & 22 December 1744, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 66 of 77, left page, bottom entry and top of right page, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1780982001?gallery=true&center=659.310,-1699.804&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 28 September 2019).
  12. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, birth & baptism of Jean Baptiste Myet, 5 July 1746, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT12 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1744/1757, image 9 of 64, left page, third entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtabf1e38cfdd1556a6/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_3bbbd278c9f7ebe12c2eb6d457cb72c1#id:1147720920?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=503.799,-709.303&zoom=10&rotation=0.000 : accessed 29 September 2019).  Also, Vernois-sur-Mance civil records 1802-1812, death of Jean Baptiste Myet, 28 March 1807, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, VERNOIS-SUR-MANCE 1802/1812, image 106 of 202, right page, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta3e961786a5dffe4f/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_fea0ca8287d678540d028bce2ea9cf79#id:1195093694?gallery=true&center=2727.000,-2389.000&zoom=9&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 20 November 2019).
  13. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, birth & baptism of Jeanne Miet, 15 December 1748, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT12 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1744/1757, image 19 of 64, left page, third entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtabf1e38cfdd1556a6/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_3bbbd278c9f7ebe12c2eb6d457cb72c1#id:1176350071?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=528.936,-929.145&zoom=10&rotation=0.000 : accessed 29 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, death & burial of Jeanne Miet, 18 & 19 December 1748, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT12 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1744/1757, image 19 of 64, left page, fourth entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtabf1e38cfdd1556a6/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_3bbbd278c9f7ebe12c2eb6d457cb72c1#id:1176350071?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=519.646,-1226.722&zoom=11&rotation=0.000 : accessed 29 September 2019).
  14. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, birth & baptism of Gabriel Miet, 29 May 1751, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT12 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1744/1757, image 31 of 64, left page, third entry [this includes the entry that is crossed out], (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtabf1e38cfdd1556a6/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_3bbbd278c9f7ebe12c2eb6d457cb72c1#id:1226220205?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=577.912,-841.997&zoom=10&rotation=0.000 : accessed 29 September 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, death & burial of Gabriele Miet, 21 & 22 March 1753, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT12 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1744/1757, image 42 of 64, left page, second entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtabf1e38cfdd1556a6/daogrp/0#id:1255772877?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=544.469,-538.804&zoom=10&rotation=0.000 : accessed 2 October 2019).
  15. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Anne Françoise Miet, 20 April 1729.
  16. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, birth & baptism of Nicolas Miet, 30 April & 1 May 1732.
  17. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, birth & baptism of Jeanne Miet, 15 December 1748.
  18. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1761–1787, death & burial of Joseph Miet, 2 & 3 September 1774, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT14 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1761/1787, image 89 of 180, left page, second entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta1d26f13909e7d055/daogrp/0#id:1984425940?gallery=true&center=590.413,-795.221&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 19 November 2019).
  19. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1787-1792, death & burial of Jeanne Dufant, 26 & 27 October 1787, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT15 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1787/1792, image 4 of 23, right page, first entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtab6a66f43744cf58d/daogrp/0#id:2054611033?gallery=true&center=1710.418,-322.214&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 19 November 2019).
  20. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, marriage of François Miet & Margueritte Perney, 28 February 1729, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT11 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1683/1737, image 91 of 127, left page, first entry (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta492be7e96fa8704f/daogrp/0#id:1094159205?gallery=true&center=685.343,-411.877&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 18 November 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, death & burial of Margueritte Perney, 27 & 28 November 1739, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, images 22 & 23 of 77, right page bottom and left page top, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1662771313?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00&center=1777.588,-1526.111&zoom=10&rotation=0.000 : accessed 19 November 2019).  Also, Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, marriage of Francois Myet & Anne Cornaire, 12 January 1740, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; EC_3E454_2 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1738/1745, image 23 of 77, right page, second full entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta9c05f82f18576c63/daogrp/0#id:1663694834?gallery=true&center=1684.462,-1166.933&zoom=9&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 5 November 2019).
  21. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, death & burial of Jean Miet, 22 February 1741.
  22. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1744-1757, death & burial of Claude Miet, 1 & 2 March 1756, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_454EDEPOT12 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1744/1757, image 57 of 64, left page, first entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtabf1e38cfdd1556a6/daogrp/0#id:1289019633?gallery=true&center=539.819,-303.619&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 18 November 2019).
  23. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1756-1763, marriage of Françoise Miet & Claude Vautherin, 30 January 1759, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; EC_3E454_4 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1756/1763, image 30 of 83, right page, first entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtaa896d4eabf8826c9/daogrp/0#id:539152110?gallery=true&center=1643.312,-586.169&zoom=8&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 5 November 2019).
  24. Vernois-sur-Mance church records 1737-1751, marriage of Jeanne Myet & Jacque Garde, 7 February 1741, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; EC_548EDEPOT14 – VERNOIS-ON-MANCE 1737/1751, image 43 of 136, left page, third entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta59704eadd6e8878d/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_9593ac7a750bb523a1acf05edf0cd00c#id:1150622676?gallery=true&center=643.181,-1084.519&zoom=9&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 19 November 2019).
  25. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, marriage of François Miet & Margueritte Perney, 28 February 1729.
  26. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1738-1745, marriage of Francois Myet & Anne Cornaire, 12 January 1740.
  27. Vernois-sur-Mance church records 1737-1751, marriage of Jeanne Myet & Jacque Garde, 7 February 1741.
  28. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1683-1737, marriage of François Miet & Margueritte Perney, 28 February 1729).
  29. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1756-1763, death & burial of Nicolas Miet, 8 & 9 April 1758, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, Haute-Saône Archives, EC_3E454_4 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1756/1763, image 24 of 83, right page, first full entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtaa896d4eabf8826c9/daogrp/0#id:564087177?gallery=true&center=1654.939,-589.081&zoom=9&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 20 November 2019).
  30. The author turned the page and read every record in the Rosières-sur-Mance church books between 1683 and 1767.
  31. Saint-Marcel church records 1653-1743, marriage of Nicolaum Myet & Joannam Renet, 16 January 1702, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; EC_468EDEPOT2 – SAINT-MARCEL 1653/1743, right page, second entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtaa7b8026f3a665e91/daogrp/0#id:882861418?gallery=true&center=1562.749,-725.357&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 20 November 2019).
  32. The author turned the page and read every record in the Rosières-sur-Mance church books between 1683 and 1767, and completed the same search of the Saint Marcel church books between 1700 and 1717.
  33. Saint-Marcel church records 1653-1743, birth & baptism of Jeanne Miet, 24 & 25 April 1717, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_468EDEPOT2 – SAINT-MARCEL 1653/1743, image 143 of 310, right page, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vtaa7b8026f3a665e91/daogrp/0#id:1739888906?gallery=true&center=1570.863,-1150.178&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00: accessed 19 November 2019).
  34. Observation of author from reading every record in these two communes’ church records over a large range of years.
  35. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1761–1787, death & burial of Joseph Miet, 2 & 3 September 1774.
  36. Rosières-sur-Mance church records 1761–1787, death & burial of François Myet, 27 & 28 April 1778, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_454EDEPOT14 – ROSIERES-SUR-MANCE 1761/1787, image 116 of 180, right page, first entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta1d26f13909e7d055/daogrp/0#id:1626212295?gallery=true&center=1654.874,-391.332&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 20 November 2019).
  37. Amance church records 1638-1730, death of Marie Myet, 21 December 1704, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_12EDEPOT3 – AMANCE 1638/1730, image 84 of 178, left page, fourth entry from bottom, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta70d26f6e4ca1bdde/daogrp/0#id:901915563?gallery=true&center=627.000,-1293.000&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 21 November 2019).
  38. Amance church records 1638-1730, baptism of Jeanne Myet, 1 May 1705, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_12EDEPOT3 – AMANCE 1638/1730, image 84 of 178, right page, first entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta70d26f6e4ca1bdde/daogrp/0#id:1097702015?gallery=true&center=1624.766,-292.419&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 21 November 2019).
  39. Amance church records 1638-1730, death of Jeanne Myet, 15 December 1705, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_12EDEPOT3 – AMANCE 1638/1730, image 19 of 178, left page, third entry from bottom, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta70d26f6e4ca1bdde/daogrp/0#id:901915563?gallery=true&center=627.000,-1293.000&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 21 November 2019).
  40. Amance church records 1638-1730, baptism of Joseph Myet, 2 January 1707, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_12EDEPOT3 – AMANCE 1638/1730, image 85 of 178, right page, second entry from bottom, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta70d26f6e4ca1bdde/daogrp/0#id:1098625536?gallery=true&center=1697.660,-1397.131&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 21 November 2019).
  41. Amance church records 1638-1730, baptism of Claude François Myet, 23 July 1709, Haute-Saône Archives, Vesoul, France; digital image, EC_12EDEPOT3 – AMANCE 1638/1730, image 89 of 178, bottom entry, (http://archives.haute-saone.fr/ark:/77977/vta70d26f6e4ca1bdde/daogrp/0#id:1102319620?gallery=true&center=1735.609,-1560.497&zoom=10&rotation=0.000&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00 : accessed 21 November 2019).

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25 thoughts on “Identifying Parents for Joseph Miet in 18th Century France Through Godparent & Witness Analysis”

  1. Thank you for posting these interesting records, Amberly. I noticed that Joseph and Jeanne’s marriage record states they had the consent of all (tous) of their parents. Also, I believe the age at which one could marry without needing parental consent at that time in France was 25 years. Thus, the record provides a clue to their ages and indicates that all parents were alive at the time. I am surprised to see parents’ names were not listed.

    Lynne

    Reply

    1. Hello Lynne!! Thank you! I had that in my translation, but when I took my report and wrote up my proof argument I somehow lost track of that detail. I have updated my post to reflect that. (Soooo much data to synthesize into one post!)

      My family lived mostly in Rosières-sur-Mance and Vernois-sur-Mance. The parents names weren’t consistently listed on marriage records until about 1730ish or so. The other fun quirk is the marriage records were recorded in Latin for far longer than the other records. If the Priest’s handwriting was especially bad, those ones are a lot harder for me to transcribe and translate. 🙂

      Reply

      1. I was surprised to find I had French ancestry; it goes pretty far back though. I studied French starting in Junior High School as the better choice vs Home Economics. I “took” to it, and majored in French and Spanish in college. I have studied a bit of German, and I do family research in Flemish (Dutch) and Swedish– just beginning on that. If I can attempt to help you or anyone here, please feel free to ask.

        Lynne

        Reply

    1. Thank you, Su! This project has kept me very busy the last few months. It was a practice piece to help me get ready to prepare my portfolio for BCG. 🙂

      Reply

        1. I’m hoping to go on the clock by the end of next year. I have some more education I am working on and lots more practice! Plus, I lost my case study to a piece of direct evidence. Bummer. So now I’m on the hunt for another good case. 😉

          Reply

            1. Thank you, Su! I’m sure I’ll find one. I just really wanted to do THAT one. Haha. I have another one I am working on, just hoping not to find any direct evidence… That is such a weird thing to say! Only a genealogist hoping to become certified wishes for a hard genealogy problem. 😉

              Reply

  4. I’d give you an A+ on your practice piece, Amberly. As you mentioned, normally only the godparents would sign the baptismal record. I’ve also run across some where the father signed and I was able to compare his signature with that found on other documents.

    Reply

    1. Thank you, Cathy!! I was so surprised to see Nicolas’ signature on that baptism record, but also completely delighted! It’s such a nice piece of evidence. 🙂

      Reply

  5. Hi! I saw the link posted on Facebook and had to visit and read your proof argument. I think this is my first time visiting your website. I am really impressed with your analysis! I do have a couple of questions.

    First of all, you have under “Establishing the Miet Sibling Relationships” that in the 1741 marriages between Jeanne “Myet” and Jacque Garde that her “two brothers… were witnesses to her marriage.” But, at this point you haven’t established that they were, in fact, her brothers. Did the document call them her brothers? If so, you might clarify this. If not, you might change the wording.

    Second, your title states you are identifying Joseph’s parents through godparent and witness analysis. And, I think you did a wonderful job with this! But, you do have direct evidence – document #40 – stating the names of Joseph’s parents. I agree you needed to pull all of this information together to put this family together as one unit. But, I don’t know that – as in your conclusion – you could still call this an “indirect answer” to your research question.

    I really did love what you did and am trying to learn from it! I thought your analysis and subtitles were wonderful!!!

    I see you’re speaking at RootsTech 2020. So am I! I hope we can meet in person then.

    Sincerely,
    Dana Leeds

    Reply

    1. Hi Dana!! Thank you for your excellent and thoughtful questions!

      For question one, yes, the 1741 marriage record for Jeanne does name them as brothers and their signatures match the large collection of signatures I have gathered for each man. I reworded that short paragraph to reflect that. Thank you! Each time I read that little part I felt like it wasn’t quite right, but your question finally showed me why.

      As for question two, you are really making me think on that one! Here is my rambly answer… I am not ready to call the Amance records solid yet. I don’t have another explanation for who that family might be, but I also don’t have any connection between my family and Amance right now. The Amance records are not as easy to work with and I haven’t spent as much time with them so don’t feel confident that I fully understand their organization and limitations. Also, I’m hoping to nail down a better timeline for my family and that family (whether they are two separate families or the same family). For example, there is no birth record for the Marie who died in Amance in any of the communes in question, and there is a rather large gap between Claude François born in Amance in 1709 and Jeanne born in 1717 in Saint Marcel. If the Amance family is my family, it seems likely they lived in at least one other commune at possibly two different times — when Marie was born and between Claude François’ birth and Jeanne’s birth. (Likely more children to find too.) However, they are a very nice fit to my family and I did not want to ignore the possibility that they could be my family. So I suppose that is why I still consider the answer to have come indirectly and why I used the words “potential” and “possible” in that section. But you are absolutely right that if that birth record belongs to Joseph, this case no longer qualifies as having been solved solely with indirect evidence. And now I am going to be thinking about this for a while, I am sure! 😉

      Thank you for the nice compliments and taking the time to ask such great questions! That is exactly what I was hoping for — some honest feedback to help me strengthen my argument.

      I hope we can meet at RootsTech as well!! Thank you, Dana.

      Reply

    1. Thank you, Virginia! I love French research!! Have you tried Filae.com? They launched an English version of their website recently. My research was done paging through church books on the department archives website, but if your husband’s family immigrated more recently, some of their records might be on Filae. Good luck! ❤️

      Reply

    1. Thank you, Alex! I really loved this research project. I created three signature tables, the one for Nicolas included in this post, and then one for Francois and one for Joseph. Their tables had many more signatures. Signature studies can be so helpful!

      Reply

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