There are some family puzzles that take years to solve. You gather bits here and there that don’t always make sense. Slowly, you learn more, but the core questions remain. Then more records become available and you add those to the bits you already have and suddenly you are able to tie things together in a way you couldn’t before. That is exactly the meandering path that Aunt Rosey has sent me on. And what a journey it has been!
Almost two years ago I wrote about all of the matrimonial connections in this part of my tree. Then, nearly a month ago now, I wrote about the Robert Hyde – Rosey Hyde marriage and child. The questions that post brought up led me to spend time on a serious review of my sources and follow up on every single lead I had. That process led me to find a tiny little hint of Norma.
Finding Norma meant that I discovered Rose Elvera Hyde wasn’t new to me. I had just forgotten about her.
In fairness though, I had first known her as Elvira Kingham.
Let’s take a little journey down the rabbit hole together, shall we?
Many moons ago, the first record I found about Rosey Hyde – that I knew FOR SURE was about Rosey – was this marriage record to Harry Grant Kingham in 1914.
Rosey is listed as a spinster, which I had no reason to question. I figured the record was accurate and thought I had found her first marriage. The natural next step was to try to learn everything I could about Harry Grant Kingham. I didn’t find much. But I did find this US Consular Record.
I hadn’t yet become savvy about how complicated this family was when I first found this document. It lists two daughters for Harry that were born prior to his marriage to Rosey. I tried to research them and just couldn’t find anything about a Grace Kingham or an Elvira Kingham. I made the natural assumption that they were his daughters prior to his marriage to Rosey. I tried to find a first wife for him – even though he was listed as a bachelor on his marriage record to Rosey – no luck.
So what did I do?
I added two daughters to Harry Grant Kingham with an unknown mother. The girls were not attached to Rosey in my tree.
Now, fast forward to a few weeks ago…
When I found Rosey’s death record and discovered she had a daughter named Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson, I had forgotten all about Elvira Kingham.
Thank goodness for that pesky little travel record that was generated when Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson went to visit her sister Mrs. Norma ?rance in 1945. That record led me to revisit every source attached to every person connected to Rosey Hyde.
So there I was, suddenly staring at two different Elveras in my tree – Elvira Kingham and Rose Elvera Hyde Williamson. But they were really the same person. So I merged them.
I quit taking any parent child relationships for granted at this point and used every combo of names for each girl. I also quit considering Rosey’s husbands as minor character actors in her life. The girls used Harry’s last name so I needed to know everything about Harry that I could find.
The next notable stop down the rabbit hole was Harry’s WWI Canadian Expeditionary Forces Personnel File. There were plenty of facts about Harry but there were two pages that were especially enlightening about Rosey’s girls.
This particular image was page 38 of Harry’s file and it told me that Grace was actually named Muriel Grace.
This image was page 50 of Harry’s file and is the second mention of Norma – Norma Robertine Kingham – to be exact.
Suddenly, Rosey’s three girls began to make more sense to me. I updated Grace in my tree with the name Muriel Grace Hyde, added Norma, and away I went.
Ancestry.com very quickly added a few hints to Muriel, including this Washington State Application for License to Wed.
It certainly matched the few details I had about Muriel Grace. The fact that the witness was a Robert Hyde was intriguing, but even more interesting to me was this line in the application: “…I further swear that there is no legal impediment to their marriage…and [they] are not nearer of kin to each other than second cousins.”
Hmmmmm… if that Muriel Grace was my Muriel Grace, and if that Robert Hyde was my Robert Hyde, did he feel sheepish signing that form and remembering that Muriel’s parentage was himself and his niece Rosey?
That is some genealogical irony right there.
Next, I pulled up the actual marriage certificate.
Muriel listed her parents as Robert Hyde, born in Sheffield, Eng and Alice Whiteley, born in Sheffield, Eng. Robert and Alice are the two witnesses to this union.
What?!
Quick recap – Alice Whiteley Hyde is the aunt turned step-mom of Rosey Hyde. At the time of Muriel Grace Hyde’s birth, Alice Whiteley Hyde was married to Henry Hyde – her first marriage and his second. If she was ever married to Robert Hyde is was after she was widowed first by Henry, then by his brother Arthur. She was the informant on Robert’s death record and listed him as the divorced spouse of Rosey, not as her husband.
So, was Muriel the daughter of Alice or Rosey?
If it was Alice, then Alice had a child with her husband Henry’s brother while she was still married to Henry, then after Henry’s death proceeded to marry a different brother – Arthur, before finally settling down to live with the third brother Robert when she was once again widowed.
That seems too crazy, even for this family.
Did Muriel list Alice as her mother – because Alice was there, conveniently had the last name of Hyde as if she was married to Robert, and had a different maiden name – in an effort to avoid an uncomfortable conversation about why her mother’s maiden name matched her father’s name? Especially when the license required that bride and groom not be more closely related than second cousins? Was that little question putting Muriel on the spot mentally? Was it highlighting her uncomfortable past? Was Muriel lying to save face? Was she lying because she was embarrassed?
And, why was Robert at the wedding but not Rosey? In 1924 Rosey was a widowed single mom with two girls at home. Maybe she couldn’t afford to travel from Vancouver, BC to Vancouver, Washington?
I hoped that Muriel’s death record might reveal something, anything, but unfortunately it is an index only record on both the BC Archives and FamilySearch. FamilySearch does hold the microfilm on which the record exists, but it is stored in the Granite Mountain Vault. {I will probably take a little trip up to Salt Lake to view the film, I just have to remember how to request a film from the vault… That is, if that film is allowed to be viewed…}
But I digress, the index to Muriel’s death lists this:
Muriel is listed as having a father named Robert Hyde. I find no record of any children born to Muriel and Walter during their 12 years of marriage.
At this point I reviewed a few old family notes and letters. Now be careful not to get lost here. I found a letter written by Vera, daughter of Alice Hyde Duval who is the sister of Rosey Hyde. Yes that’s right, both sisters named a daughter Elvera. This letter written by Vera to my Grandma, mentions an old scrapbook that Vera kept. She asked my Grandma if she wanted to have it.
I had a lightbulb moment and remembered that my mom’s cousin Heather had emailed me a few scans of an old scrapbook she had. I dug through my emails and found those scans. Among them was this page.
When Heather sent this to me all those years ago, I had NO EARTHLY IDEA who Mr. and Mrs. Peter Williamson were. I did some basic searching but came up empty. I figured they were important to someone in my family so I went ahead and added them to FamilySearch and uploaded the announcement. But now? The minute that image opened, I knew exactly who they were – this was a marriage invitation for the daughter of Rose Elvera Hyde and Peter Williamson.
Rosey was a Grandma!
This union of Carole Rose Williamson and Gordon David Zilke produced at least four children. Of those four children, at least one has died. But the other three may be living. I did a little Facebook digging and found a small cluster of living descendants. Because this whole thing started from the position of thinking that Rosey was a gay barber who had no children, I was completely shocked to discover that Rosey has living descendants. I was not expecting that at all. I wonder if any of them know anything about Rosey? I wonder if any of them have pictures of Rosey?
Because I think I do.
I think this photo is of Rosey Hyde & Harry Grant Kingham at the time of their marriage in 1914.
I’m getting sidetracked again…
At the time of Rose Elvera Hyde’s Marriage to Peter Williamson, she listed her parents as Robert Hyde, born in England, and Rose Hyde, born in Golden, BC.
At the time of Rose Elvera Hyde’s death, her parents are listed as Robert Hyde, born in Sheffield, England, and Rose Whitely, born in Golden, BC.
The records for both Muriel Grace and Rose Elvera Hyde are inconsistent in identifying their parentage. But they are clearly describing the same grouping of people. Were these inaccuracies intentional or accidental? Were they hiding something? It seems like it.
This leaves one more daughter – Norma. The daughter that is definitely not a child of Robert Hyde. Norma, the daughter of Rosey Hyde, and Harry Grant Kingham. Norma, who led me deep into the rabbit hole. Norma, who changed her name to Barbara. Norma, who deserves her own post.
So here I am stuck in this mental loop where I just can’t seem to reconcile everything. Part of me wants to believe that Rosey’s birth is the key. That Rosey isn’t really the daughter of Henry Hyde and Ann Whiteley. That maybe, just maybe, Rosey is the child of another couple, but that Ann and Henry took her in for some reason. That reason wouldn’t be hard to come up with. They were living in the extreme west in a very tiny little speck of a town. So maybe Rosey is my adopted 2nd great grand aunt. And just when I think I have myself good and convinced that this might be the case, I talk myself back out of it because there is no baby girl born in Golden, BC on the date that Rosey claims as her birthdate. No baby girl of ANY name born in the entire year of 1883 in Golden, BC.
Where does this all leave me?
I’m not sure.
There is a story here – that is for certain. It’s not a traditional story. But man is it intriguing. I have a few more records I am trying to scrounge up that I hope will shed some light on the core question – were Rosey Hyde and Robert Hyde both husband and wife AND uncle and niece?
- I have reached out to the appropriate agency to try to get a copy of Robert and Rosey’s divorce decree – if it exists.
- I have requested a copy of Alice Whiteley Hyde’s probate record.
- I have ordered the Homestead File for Alice Whiteley Hyde and Henry Hyde’s homestead in Alaska.
- I have requested any records about this whole lot from the church in Alaska that Alice Hyde Duval’s oldest son was baptized in – maybe there will be another event for that family in that church.
- I need to get my hands on the image of Muriel Grace Hyde Groome’s death record if I can.
- And lastly, I am currently building a spreadsheet with everyone’s entries in the City Directories to help me understand the timeline even better. It is very enlightening.
And that, my friends, is where I am at. Still undecided. Still searching. My core question is most likely unanswerable. But I am so glad that I asked the question because I have learned so much more about this part of my family. I have learned so much more about Rosey.
Rosey has become a very different person to me. The picture of her life in my heart is very delicate and intricate. There are details that come from the nuances of the records that lead me to believe that Harry was the great love of her life, that Neil was a loving old age companion, and that Robert, well, Robert seems to be the villain. I don’t know if that’s fair, but that is who he is becoming in my mind.
Thank you for journeying down the rabbit hole with me. Don’t get lost, it can be scary down here. Head back up to light if you can. 😉
Happy Wednesday, I hope you make a fascinating genealogy discovery today!
ps – Despite all of the records that I included, there are so many that I did not include. Among those are a few international travel records for Robert, Rosey, and the two older girls. Hmmmm…
pps – If you happen to be one of Rosey’s living descendants, email me – amberlysfamilyhistory {at} yahoo {dot} com. Let’s put our tid-bits together and make this picture as clear as we can. That is, if you can forgive me.
Good luck in your quest to unravel these family ties! That is a beautiful wedding portrait, and possibly someone else has the same one with information written on the back.
Thank you Maryann! That is what I am hoping for. I’ve reached out to a family member, we will see…
This is just an incredible story. I wish I had answers or suggestions for you, but it is all so crazy that I can’t. At first I thought maybe Rose Elvera put her mother as Alice because she was thinking of her mother’s mother, but since she had her father’s name right, that made no sense. Good luck! I can’t wait to see what else you find.
Thank you Amy! Every time I come up a with a theory I disprove it too. I was telling my husband last night that if you look at any of them in isolation you would think the sources weren’t all about that person. When you look at them as a group you can tell you have the right people but it’s just so convoluted that you can’t accurately pin down a theory. Well, expect for the one I’m hoping to disprove…
It is a bit creepy, but I bet it happened more than we might think. Certainly first cousins married, and men married the sisters of their first wives all the time. But for the age difference, would this be much different? It all seems creepy to me though!
I’m with you!
Reblogged this on Janet’s thread.
Thank you Janet! 🙂
Well, convoluted sure applies. It seems that there is at least one of these confusing, misleading people in both my spouses sides. I haven’t really dug into them as they are well removed cousins, at least I haven’t yet. Good luck, I’m sure it’ll be interesting.
Thank you!
In my family, there were children given to other siblings who could not have children. So they viewed them as their parents, but in reality it was the aunt and uncle who raised them. Also when parents died, the surviving children were raised by aunt and uncle so they did not go to the orphanage. Perhaps Rosey came from another city to be raised by relatives?
That’s an interesting thought. The parents are both from Sheffield, England. They were living in Golden, BC at the time of Rosey’s birth and her supposed mother’s death. All of their family was still in England. After the mother’s death they also returned to England and left Rosey in the care of grandparents so in this instance it seems unlikely that she is a family member. I do think it’s possible that she is an orphaned child of a non-relative. But your question is making me wonder about the father’s cousins. It’s kind of a big move to make your way from England to Alaska with only your wife during this time period. I wonder if some of the more distantly related family members may have also gone west. I’ve had trouble with the descendancy research on the father’s family lines. Maybe I should revisit that… Thanks for the thought!
Does your chart have room for the next edit? Because I’m sure you will come shooting out of the rabbit hole with even more questions and answers. Thank you for sharing all your finds and thoughts. Great research, Amberly.
Thank you Cathy. This isn’t the original chart. I printed a copy but made it smaller so I had room to add to it. I may have to do that again. 😉
That’s what I thought – you’ll do it again. 😉
Crazy, messy, convoluted; and absolutely gripping. I did feel at once stage like I’d accidentally picked up the script for a daytime soap!!! I so hope you can find answers to these questions. Great research and thanks for sharing this amazing story.
Thank you Su! It is so fascinating, isn’t it? And daytime soap sounds about right. 🙂